Wing Commander Series Reboot/Remake Concept Dump

Knight26-77

Rear Admiral
Wing Commander Remake/Reboot Concept

Overall Concept:
After replaying the original Wing Commander Trilogy, and reading numerous posts on the WC CIC certain issues with the games began to stand out again. As a writer, pilot, and engineer (problem solver) I began to consider what the best way to correct those would be. THis might be a bit rambling but I will do my best to keep it coherent and logical. In general the idea is to outline my thoughts on how to recreate a modern WC experience that would be accessible to many, while still being a proper space sim. Yes, Sq42 truly looks like it will be backdoor WC remake that may do many of the things I am thinking, but for sake of simplicity I want to keep this a straight reboot. That means that most characters will remain who and what they were, but the timelines, history and tech will be cleaned up.

Engine/Physics:
An off the shelf engine could be used, not sure which, so long as it is a proper newtonian physics model. Fighters will be able to slip and slide about including transition and rotation around all 6 Degrees of Freedom. “Top Speed” would be considered an artificial limitation based on things like acceleration and “turn around time.” i.e. A hornet has a top speed of 420 mps in combat conditions because it can accelerate at 10Gs and reach it’s ”top speed” in ~4.2s. “Cruise Speed,” would far faster for transiting between nav points, but at those velocities maneuvering would be considered problematic. Klavs had an interesting idea for how this would work. https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/threads/new-3d-thread.26292/post-387127
His idea could use refinement for this reboot but would work for the most part.

The engine should also allow for atmospheric flight with all the limitations that incurs. The old X-Plane engine allowed for this in some cases to a pretty good degree. Fighters and other craft would be much less resilient to physical damage in the atmosphere due to the additional stress and strains involved and shields would be weakened, especially at higher speeds. Fuel usage would also increase due to drag at top speed limited.

Damage model:
The engine would need a proper damage model where damage to a section adds and compounds. For instance damaged armor will open up internal systems and structure to additional damage. For instance a wing break might result in losing the whole wing, not necessarily destruction of the whole fighter. However that would compound issues with the loss of fuel cells, weapons, thrusters, shield projectors, etc… Damage to thrusters could even result in misfires that kick the ship around until repaired. Most fighters won’t explode, instead most will go dead and drift after taking too much damage. Specific damage, detonating fuel cells or weapons bays, will result in explosive destruction, but that would not be the norm. Even hitting the fusion reactor is more likely to just leave a fighter dead in space.

This would be most evident in capital ships. A torpedo or missile hit opening up a hole in the hull would vent debris and make a more attractive target for additional attack as it allows unfettered access to the damaged section.

Ship Designs:
I will admit that I am a huge fan of the designs in the WC Universe and especially Klavs and Howard Days fan designs. I would lean more towards Klavs design aesthetic overall with some tweaks and adjustments. More specifics will come later.

Confed designs in WC1+2 are for the most part on point, but in WC3 I would want to see the return of atmospheric wings. Remember the new engine will allow for atmospheric flight and engagements. Confed would routinely design their fighters and bombers for transatmospheric operations, with a few exceptions, especially as the war wears on.

The Kilrathi Design aesthetic will be the most played with. While I love the more flowing designs of the first two games I also quite liked the asymmetric nature of their ships in WC3 onward. I would like to see a nice blending of the two from the onset.

Fighter Changes:
A thing that bugs me about most space sims is the the constant jumping between ship types. WC1 handled this well with limited fighter changes and doing so only when switching squadrons. WC2 started to really cockpit swap willy nilly, as did WC3, though that was more explainable with Blair being the actual wing commander.

To add a sense of realism we would stick with the WC1 style for the most part, but when transitioning between squadrons a “training mission” to get the pilot qualified on the type would be included, with the squadron commander or other wingmate giving instruction.

Races:
Humans and Kilrathi are obvious, but better integration of the minor races mentioned in the books and other secondary media. The Confederation would have multiple races present from the onset, though many would be non-combatants. The Kilrathi would appear with their slave races frequently, and winning those slaves over could be minor, or major, plot points. There could even be references to WW2 Nazi Slaves sabotaging the Kilrathi where able, missiles not exploding, fighters just dying in space, etc…

Characters:
The part many are waiting for. Character interactions have always been a major part of the WC saga and this will continue here, but taking a more Mass Effect approach to things. Exploration of the ship, either in over the shoulder, first person, or just point and click, to talk to the various characters would be just as important as the missions themselves. Players will be able to interact not only with their wingmates, but deck crew, commanders, instructors, civilians (when available) and even have multiple potential love interests. How those interactions go will affect how characters fly, fight, and even help or not help you. Details on the various established characters can remain largely as they were, but the major change will be to the new and especially the player character(s).

It has been established that Ellen Guon wanted to allow for a female main character choice, so why not do so from the beginning? There are two options as I see them: the Mass Effect route, where the main character of Chris(topher/tine) Blair can be a male or female, or giving the option of playing as either Christopher “Maverick” Blair or Jeanette “Angel” Deveraux. The player would also be allowed to pick different backstories (similar to ME), but their inciting incident would be something that the player could actually experience.

Timeline:
The timeline of the games are curiously short, with WC1-SM2 taking place over approximately 18 months during which time the MC ranks up from 2ndLT to full Colonel. This is far too quick. WC2-SO2 takes place for a more reasonable 2 years, approximately, with only a 1 year gap before WC3, which only takes place over a few months at most. The historical timeline can remain largely intact with the changes taking place primarily around the games themselves.

Game 1: Wing Commander Academy:
After picking the MC (Maverick or Angel) and their backstory the game begins with a short (10-20 mission) branching prequel campaign. The campaign is a tutorial, beginning with the cadet “graduation exercise,” that walks the player through the basics of atmospheric and space flight as well as weapons controls, etc… The player then moves onto their graduation assignment on an older carrier or destroyer on backwater patrol. This short campaign takes place over a six month period. The MC starts as a 2nd LT and earns a two rank promotion to Captain as the carrier/destroyer finds itself cut off and having to fight to survive with the MC eventually leading them to safety. The MC will start off with a familiar wingmate (Blair gets Maniac, and Angel gets Spirit). Most of the remaining squadmates get transferred off to other ships or die, increasing the stakes and effecting future interactions.

Notes:
Characters from the WCA series can/will show up here. Most of the fighters will be older ones and two seat light and mediums fighter with some trainer variants (Ferrets, Hornets, Scimitars, Wildcats, early arrows, etc...) There will be some desperation measure of using the fighters in roles they were never intended for.

Game 2: Wing Commander Vega Campaign
The freshly promoted MC is reassigned to the TC Tiger’s Claw. THe game takes place largely like the original through to the SM2 campaign and the introduction of the Firekans. The game still features a full branching campaign (30-60 depending on path) with winning and losing paths as well as an “idealized canon path.” Sometimes the winning path might actually feel like a losing path to throw the player off. Beating the game in 30 missions will require insane piloting skills and probably cheating as certain objectives will make it near impossible to reach/achieve others. The timeline is extended to up to three to five years during which time the MC can develop relationships, go on Special Secret Missions, fly other prototypes, and be granted additional duties and responsibilities as they advance in rank. They still experience a meteoric rank rise which many characters comment on, some with praise, others derision and jealousy as they advance more slowly.

Notes:
The OG WC1 characters feature heavily as will characters like Tolwyn and references or interactions with the WCA characters. The MC will have a contentious relationship with Tolwyn from the beginning, with Tolwyn making comments regarding their “too fast” promotions. Fighters escorting heavier craft will feature more, especially for capital ship strikes. Torpedoes will be used by Raptors and modified Scimitars, maybe even early Broadswords. This will be primarily due to the firepower they can deliver and not phase shields. A torpedo blowing open the hull of a ship would then allow lighter craft to do serious damage for example. Proper Kilrathi Carriers will also feature in the main campaign as will interactions with the various alien characters.

Game 3: Wing Commander: Enigma Campaign
The storyline here remains much the same with the Tiger’s Claw being destroyed and the MC getting sidelined for 8 years. They are largely cut off from most of their old friends for various reasons that get explored throughout the game. This will feature another long campaign (30-60 missions) and go all the way through SO2 and take 2-3 years. Phase Shields are a thing again and competent targeting will come into play with most bombers first attacking the shield generators/projectors to allow lighter craft to assist in attacks. Old relationships can be rekindled or new ones explored. Alien crew members will feature more heavily including more defecting Kilrathi and liberated Kilrathi slaves (notably citizens of Ghorrah Khar as well as Hobbes being the primary ones seen). Hobbes will act largely as a liaison and squadron commander of the alien squadron. The WC of the Concordia will be the non-chosen MC (Blair or Angel). This game will take place over a two year time span with the MC getting shuffled around between squadrons early on due to mistrust amongst the Concordia crew, but their old friends still believe in them (sometimes). Any cockpit hopping will be explained as WC doing what they can to keep the MC flying due to their past relationship/friendship, whatever.

Once reinstated the MC will get additional responsibilities and command of their own squadron where they will get to assign pilots and choose their missions a bit more. This will take place primarily during the SO1/SO2 time period.

An expansion pack/DLC (20ish missions) will cover the next two years all the way through the battle of Earth where the MC is now the WC of the Concordia, their previous relationship transferring out at the end to work with Paladin and the SOC. As WC the MC will get briefed by the Concordia’s commander and will then assign missions to their squadrons as well as pick which mission they prefer. The last few missions leading up to the Battle of Earth will feature numerous multi-squadron missions and large fleet deployments. Whether or not the player is there for the destruction of the Concordia is debatable.

Notes: New/old fighters will start to get introduced in the SO time period and the expansion pack/DLC including several that are atmospheric and space only for certain missions. There will also be more captured Kilrathi fighters to fly, even if it is just to steal them and run away. The MC finds most of their early solace with the alien characters, especially Kharrans who see them as a hero for standing against the Kilrathi. Several even believe them about the existence of the stealth fighters, but Confed command is slow to believe many of them without evidence. The character will also have the opportunity to marry their love interest (or at least get engaged) after their name gets cleared. It is a war after all, and that happens.

Game 4: Wing Commander: End War/Epsilon Campaign
Taking place two years after the last game this will be the shortest (timeline) campaign, but the most intense. The older nature of the Victory will be evident everywhere with anachronistic tech everywhere. The fighter wing will have a near constant rotation of older and newer fighters due to the failing nature of the war. The campaign will be 30-60 missions over a 1 year time period with numerous retreats and several unwinnable mission outcomes (similar to Freespace).

The biggest changes here will be in regards to the old relationship, the Hobbes betrayal, and mission selection. Instead of them being killed outright by Thrakhath, they will be revealed to be captured and the MC can opt to try and rescue them. That will take them down a pretty intense alternate mission tree.

Mission briefings from the Captain and Admiral will be much more overarching with various goals that need to be accomplished. The “Wingmen” will largely be the various squadron commanders with the MC assigning missions to their squadrons and the MC choosing which missions they want to fly. This will allow for cockpit hopping, but also interactions with the squadron commanders about whether or not the MC has maintained their type qualifications. This will encourage the player to use the simulator more and not doing so will result in the missions in “unqualed” types being harder. PIlot fatigue will also be an issue due to the shortened nature of the campaign and managing the crews will be part of the player’s duties.

Hobbes will lead a squadron of alien pilots, mostly Kharrans, and liberated slaves. This is a serious issue with some pilots who do not like sharing the Victory with aliens (esp Kilrathi defectors). Evidence of a traitor among the crew will appear earlier with accusations of Mandarin remnants still going around and many pointing to the Kharrans as the most likely despite them having limited access to the facilities needed. Things crank up after the Behemoth test and a sleeper agent does activate while the Behemoth is enroute to Kilrah. This is when the alternate rescue mission tree can begin. The traitor will likely not be Hobbes but someone else that the MC comes to call a friend, more than likely one of the Kharrans, a freed slave, or a wingman we thought we knew well.

This game will feature the biggest design changes, especially to the Confederation fighters, as they will have wings again making them atmo capable. The Excalibur in particular will be a cross between it and the Morningstar, and be the final evolution of the design. More planetary missions (as would happen with all of them). In and Ender’s Game type of twist the fighters being used will actually get older as the game progresses, especially down losing paths until the Excal is introduced.

Larger fleet actions will also come into play with the MC actually feeling somewhat jealous when they see some of the newest carriers in formation or nostalgic when they see ship types the once served on. Again, characters from previous games that have moved on will contact the MC and or fly alongside them, maybe even joke with them about where they were assigned. Bear might show up and make comments about staying on Tolwyn’s good side.

Also there will be changes to the Behemoth/Temblor programs. The Behemoth will not outright destroy a planet but be a crust cracker, plunging the upper crust of the planet into the magma layer. The Temblor will be a Singularity weapon that rips a planet apart. Instead of being used on Kilrah, however, it will be deployed against one of its moons. The moon will break up and rain destruction onto the orbital shipyards and Kilrah itself before forming a miniature blackhole that tears the planet apart. This will come as a surprise to everyone.

Expansion Packs:
Side campaigns based on the books, where the player plays other characters could be DLCs that expand the story. These would be largely linear in nature with minimal, if any, branching compared to the main campaigns. These will follow the main series canon and not have an effect on it. There could even be “other eyes” campaigns where player can take the rolls of other pilots and commanders, see the game through their perspective.

I can expand on this more later, especially the nuances of the characters, tech, design and settings, but I think this is a good start. And, it was a fun writing exercise.
 
I appreciate the time energy and effort this took but I don't like that idea of how to handle characters at all, sorry. I rather a writer/creative tell me the story they are trying to tell then give me countless options where some of them are the obviously the ones the writer really wanted to take the story. to use your example of Mass Effect, minor spoilers incoming. In Mass Effect 1 you could save Wrex but since that was just an option, the player might not be able to make happen, he was basically written out of two and three and they sidelined a really great character. I don't want that in Wing Commander. Plus it's the whole illusion of choice which has been happening for years but especially since the Telltale Games like The Walking Dead season 1 and Mass effect. Another example is in mass effect 1 you can save the council but in 2 they still think you're a moron and they act like it never happened because of all the different Choice permutations. The Walking Dead had all the same issues. the game makes it seem like a character will remember your choice, it even puts that on top of the screen. For example Clementine will remember what you said will be displayed at the top of the screen, but then the story plays out exactly the same anyways minus a few dialogue changes. so the choice is nothing but an illusion. I hate the illusion of choice, just tell me the story you want to tell me. What I want is characters and their personality traits to be similar from game to game and story beat to story beat, with character growth happening over the series to make it believable.
 
I appreciate the time energy and effort this took but I don't like that idea of how to handle characters at all, sorry. I rather a writer/creative tell me the story they are trying to tell then give me countless options where some of them are the obviously the ones the writer really wanted to take the story. to use your example of Mass Effect, minor spoilers incoming. In Mass Effect 1 you could save Wrex but since that was just an option, the player might not be able to make happen, he was basically written out of two and three and they sidelined a really great character. I don't want that in Wing Commander. Plus it's the whole illusion of choice which has been happening for years but especially since the Telltale Games like The Walking Dead season 1 and Mass effect. Another example is in mass effect 1 you can save the council but in 2 they still think you're a moron and they act like it never happened because of all the different Choice permutations. The Walking Dead had all the same issues. the game makes it seem like a character will remember your choice, it even puts that on top of the screen. For example Clementine will remember what you said will be displayed at the top of the screen, but then the story plays out exactly the same anyways minus a few dialogue changes. so the choice is nothing but an illusion. I hate the illusion of choice, just tell me the story you want to tell me. What I want is characters and their personality traits to be similar from game to game and story beat to story beat, with character growth happening over the series to make it believable.
No worries. I totally get where you are coming from.

I actually agree with you in some ways. If you have a story to tell, tell the story. But a lot of players like to have those choices. That is why, by and large, the choices would be limited to character interactions, not broad sweeping narrative changes.

One of the great things about the WC series were the branching mission trees, and how they forced you to miss missions to replay them. The same could be said for the character arcs and relationships. The overall story remains the same, but it is the character arcs and interactions that change. From a writing POV, including that level of the player allows the author to play with numerous story ideas.

Generally, as a writer, I like to tell my story and have that be it. But, given that this is for a game franchise, allowing more player agency becomes a thing. It also creates more replay incentives. If I were to just rewrite the series, yes I would just write my canon story, but I approached this from the game franchise and replayability angle.
 
I get what you're saying but I think a good story will always triumph over replayability/choice. For instance there's a reason the last of us, the first game has been remade and rebooted now 3 times, because the story and characters are great and there is no choice in that game. It is a purely narrative driven action adventure game, where the outcomes remain the same. Yet there are players who replay that game countless times because of that story being exactly what it is. Same thing in the adventure game genre. Like the classics like Full Throttle, Monkey Island, Grim fandango. The puzzles and characters are exactly the same so there's even less reason to replay them but a lot of people still do because the stories are Timeless and they're fun.

Plus as you go from game to game depending on how much Choice there is you have to decide on the real Cannon of the story. Because like I said with The Telltale Games the illusion of choice eventually pissed players off which is why each game they released after Walking Dead Season one lost money and they eventually went out of business. In fact the last time "Choice" was handled acceptably at least to me was probably the Witcher 2 going into chapter 2 of that game. As I said in my post in the other thread that was one of my problems with the whole Rachel vs Flint thing, your choice actually didn't matter to begin with because both were just written out of the 4th game so who cares, I realize you plan to take better care than that in your version, but crap happens lol.
 
The overall concept is good!

Some of my suggestions are:

1. Ship and building design could be based on WC1 and WC2.

2. More story of the uprising of the colonies in the imperial side.

3. Before the Battle of the Earth, the political situation on the Confederation side is to be modified, with the disadvantages coming mainly from fortuitous events.

4. Hobbes isn't leading a squadron, he's commanding a fleet. He is the commander of Ghorah Khar.

5. If there have to be an unpleasantness depicted on the side of Hobbes and the protagonist, it is because Black Lance's predecessor asked for some genetic experiments to be done on the citizens of Ghorah Khar.

6. The final battle in the Good Route involves the Confederation attacking and capturing Kilrah. The emperor himself will go to battle in the Empire's last giant carrier, and if you defeat him he will order missiles to be fired at the main location in Kilrah before the carrier crashes. You can choose whether or not to intercept these missiles with full force.
 
Last edited:
The overall concept is good!

Some of my suggestions are:

1. Ship and building design could be based on WC1 and WC2.

2. More story of the uprising of the colonies in the imperial side.

3. Before the Battle of the Earth, the political situation on the Confederation side is to be modified, with the disadvantages coming mainly from fortuitous events.

4. Hobbes isn't leading a squadron, he's commanding a fleet. He is the commander of Ghorah Khar.

5. If there have to be an unpleasantness depicted on the side of Hobbes and the protagonist, it is because Black Lance's predecessor asked for some genetic experiments to be done on the citizens of Ghorah Khar.

6. The final battle in the Good Route involves the Confederation attacking and capturing Kilrah. The emperor himself will go to battle in the Empire's last giant carrier, and if you defeat him he will order missiles to be fired at the main location in Kilrah before the carrier crashes. You can choose whether or not to intercept these missiles with full force.
THank you.

1: I agree; utilize the WC1/2 design aesthetic but with the more realistic touches of our man @Klavs81 . Modified WC3 ships would also feature as the games progress.
2: This would be a great side game, maybe following Hobbes or another colony defector. The lore of the games indicates that most of them defected during the time that Blair was inactive.
3: Not sure I understand what you mean, but if the game is expanded to show the Battle of Earth, then the political situation sure could be explored more.
4: I like this idea, especially in the post-SO2 timeframe, having another Kharran alongside him in WC2 and then working under Blair in WC3 would be a nice touch.
5: While a nice touch of what would come later, I would think that keeping the BL as something that came after the war is a better idea. If Hobbes were to become an Admiral commanding a Kharran fleet, another character would have be the traitor, possibly another established character, a Mandarin survivor, a freed Kilrathi slave, or a Kharran who can't accept the destruction of their homeworld. To quote Melek, "and a race without a homeworld, unimaginable."
6: I disagree here. The Emperor was always shown to be more of a puppet master, acting from a distance with his children and grandchildren actually leading the war. Defeating the Kilrathi pretty much required the destruction or devastation of Kilrah along with killing the Emperor. With how their society is structured their entire upper societal echelon needed to be destroyed. Any clan leader, any direct imperial heir, etc... would be able to restart the war quickly.
But, keeping Hobbes alive and in command of the Kharrans, he could be the rallying voice to demand that the Kilrathi surrender.
 
THank you.

1: I agree; utilize the WC1/2 design aesthetic but with the more realistic touches of our man @Klavs81 . Modified WC3 ships would also feature as the games progress.
2: This would be a great side game, maybe following Hobbes or another colony defector. The lore of the games indicates that most of them defected during the time that Blair was inactive.
3: Not sure I understand what you mean, but if the game is expanded to show the Battle of Earth, then the political situation sure could be explored more.
4: I like this idea, especially in the post-SO2 timeframe, having another Kharran alongside him in WC2 and then working under Blair in WC3 would be a nice touch.
5: While a nice touch of what would come later, I would think that keeping the BL as something that came after the war is a better idea. If Hobbes were to become an Admiral commanding a Kharran fleet, another character would have be the traitor, possibly another established character, a Mandarin survivor, a freed Kilrathi slave, or a Kharran who can't accept the destruction of their homeworld. To quote Melek, "and a race without a homeworld, unimaginable."
6: I disagree here. The Emperor was always shown to be more of a puppet master, acting from a distance with his children and grandchildren actually leading the war. Defeating the Kilrathi pretty much required the destruction or devastation of Kilrah along with killing the Emperor. With how their society is structured their entire upper societal echelon needed to be destroyed. Any clan leader, any direct imperial heir, etc... would be able to restart the war quickly.
But, keeping Hobbes alive and in command of the Kharrans, he could be the rallying voice to demand that the Kilrathi surrender.
3. The Battle of the Earth, or Fleet Action story is wonderfully portrayed on the Empire side, but the portrayal of humans making mistakes on the Earth side is too implausible in my opinion. I think I know why the author wrote it that way, but it doesn't make sense anyway.

Let's put it this way, I think the most likely reason for a vacuum in human defenses was a sudden change in the natural environment of the universe or something like that, which interfered with Earth's defenses, so the emperor could take advantage of the gap to launch a surprise attack and penetrate deeper into the solar system. And it was not because the Confederation top really believed the Empire would keep their words.

5. It can be not Black Lance, just one of those black ops. I mean, if there has to be a rift between Hobbes and the main character, then it's almost certainly because someone in the Confederation side was going to do bad things to the people of Ghorah Khar.

6. I don't think so, the emperor wasn't a puppet, he just didsn't care too much about foreign wars per se. You see that he often did not command the battles just because he was the top of the empire and his main focus was on clan political infighting. This is clearly depicted in the Jukaga Trilogy (I mean End Run, Fleet Action and Action Stations).

On the other hand, what do you think their social structure is like? I don't think there was a strong centralization of power in this feudal imperial structure. The emperor did use long foreign wars to weaken other lords and centralize imperial power, but with the defeat of the war and the fall of the Kiranka dynasty, the empire fell.

Besides, even destroying Kilrah would only take down the core families of the Kiranka dynasty, the nobles of the other clans are still around. Anyway, Confederation can't go to waging all out war against all of them. Some clans aren't actually very hostile to humans. Even if they do not choose to join the Confederation like Ghorah Khar, there is example of goodwill being released to humanity from Ki'ra Clan (Action Stations).

After the fall of an old dynasty, according to historical tradition, a new royal family was to be decided between the clans in a warring states period, but in reality this time nothing much came out for decades because the political and cultural environment in which Kilrathi live is not the same as it was in ancient times, and there was also the matter of the Nephilim invasion.

In other words, if you were a Kilrathi lord, now that the emperor is gone, would you follow another lord's orders to attack the humans? At the cost of your own manpower and wealth? Even if some clans could be motivated to do so, how much synergy do you think can be created?

Further, I think there was an hint in WC2 that Hobbes would be the political leader of Kilrathi after the war.
 
Last edited:
3. The Battle of the Earth, or Fleet Action story is wonderfully portrayed on the Empire side, but the portrayal of humans making mistakes on the Earth side is too implausible in my opinion. I think I know why the author wrote it that way, but it doesn't make sense anyway.

Let's put it this way, I think the most likely reason for a vacuum in human defenses was a sudden change in the natural environment of the universe or something like that, which interfered with Earth's defenses, so the emperor could take advantage of the gap to launch a surprise attack and penetrate deeper into the solar system. And it was not because the Confederation top really believed the Empire would keep their words.

5. It can be not Black Lance, just one of those black ops. I mean, if there has to be a rift between Hobbes and the main character, then it's almost certainly because someone in the Confederation side was going to do bad things to the people of Ghorah Khar.

6. I don't think so, the emperor wasn't a puppet, he just didsn't care too much about foreign wars per se. You see that he often did not command the battles just because he was the top of the empire and his main focus was on clan political infighting. This is clearly depicted in the Jukaga Trilogy (I mean End Run, Fleet Action and Action Stations).

On the other hand, what do you think their social structure is like? I don't think there was a strong centralization of power in this feudal imperial structure. The emperor did use long foreign wars to weaken other lords and centralize imperial power, but with the defeat of the war and the fall of the Kiranka dynasty, the empire fell.

Besides, even destroying Kilrah would only take down the core families of the Kiranka dynasty, the nobles of the other clans are still around. Anyway, Confederation can't go to waging all out war against all of them. Some clans aren't actually very hostile to humans. Even if they do not choose to join the Confederation like Ghorah Khar, there is example of goodwill being released to humanity from Ki'ra Clan (Action Stations).

After the fall of an old dynasty, according to historical tradition, a new royal family was to be decided between the clans in a warring states period, but in reality this time nothing much came out for decades because the political and cultural environment in which Kilrathi live is not the same as it was in ancient times, and there was also the matter of the Nephilim invasion.

In other words, if you were a Kilrathi lord, now that the emperor is gone, would you follow another lord's orders to attack the humans? At the cost of your own manpower and wealth? Even if some clans could be motivated to do so, how much synergy do you think can be created?

Further, I think there was an hint in WC2 that Hobbes would be the political leader of Kilrathi after the war.
3: I agree the total dismantling of the Terran Defenses in such short order never made sense. It only would if the armistice lasted for a couple of years, and even then it would be more a halt to production, not scrapping and dismantling. What might have made more sense is that all of the older ships were recalled into spacedock for major refits, with several being considerd "too damaged or out of date" for peacetime service. Those dockyards would then be the Kilrathi's first targets. Even if the dockyards weren't the first targets, having numerous mainline ships in the yard where the reactors are repaired and refit would render those ships inoperable for months

5: I could see something like that happening, but a direct rift between Hobbes and Blair doesn't work for me.

6: I did not mean that the Emperor was a puppet; he was the one pulling the strings after all, just from a distance. However, given that it seemed that most of the imperial family, and even the high clan leaders resided on Kilrah, the destruction of that world would cut the head off the snake, and throw the rest into disarray. Yes, other clan leaders would rise up, but most would start to fight for power, to put themselves at the head of the empire. If Hobbes were to still be alive, and the leader of the rebel colonies, then given his status many of the weaker clans would probably throw their banner behind him, and if he declared that they must surrender to the Confederation they would be more inclined to do so.
 
3: I agree the total dismantling of the Terran Defenses in such short order never made sense. It only would if the armistice lasted for a couple of years, and even then it would be more a halt to production, not scrapping and dismantling. What might have made more sense is that all of the older ships were recalled into spacedock for major refits, with several being considerd "too damaged or out of date" for peacetime service. Those dockyards would then be the Kilrathi's first targets. Even if the dockyards weren't the first targets, having numerous mainline ships in the yard where the reactors are repaired and refit would render those ships inoperable for months

5: I could see something like that happening, but a direct rift between Hobbes and Blair doesn't work for me.

6: I did not mean that the Emperor was a puppet; he was the one pulling the strings after all, just from a distance. However, given that it seemed that most of the imperial family, and even the high clan leaders resided on Kilrah, the destruction of that world would cut the head off the snake, and throw the rest into disarray. Yes, other clan leaders would rise up, but most would start to fight for power, to put themselves at the head of the empire. If Hobbes were to still be alive, and the leader of the rebel colonies, then given his status many of the weaker clans would probably throw their banner behind him, and if he declared that they must surrender to the Confederation they would be more inclined to do so.
3. I mean the Confederation brass wouldn't have trusted the Empire at all, it was only chance that led to the Empire being given the opportunity.

5. If the player chooses to take part in such ops, or at least acquiesces to them, then the rift will appear.

6. I do not think so. Other clan leaders usually live on their respective fief planets, like Hobbes' family was living on planet Hhallas. Even if the Emperor had some relatives still on Kilrah, that doesn't mean it had to be an indiscriminate destructive attack. Defeat in the war effectively meant the fall of the Kiranka dynasty, and this had alomost nothing to do with whether or not the emperor's close relatives survived. Culturally, an emperor who cannot lead the entire Kilrathi to victory is not an emperor anymore.

Oh, sorry, now I see I misread the phrase "puppet master".

Hobbes' family lost real power in the empire, but the status of their lineage is high in Kilrathi society. Note that Ghorah Khar is on the winning side of the war.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top